I am just seeking input for Rebuy & Add-on tournies . Mainly anything about play theory and mostly advantages, disadvantages , costs incurred , bingo play in beginning , luck in seating placement and time to tighten up after the Add-on / Rebuy period is over .
I will use a $1 buy in as reference. 1500 start chips
Some examples I may offer for discussion :
When you join should you automatically double your stack for double up advantage ? now having 3000 chips.
I see in the beginning that alot of all-in tries for the double up because of the rebuy option.
Say you lose one , now rebuy double for another 3000 chips . ( $4 invested now )
Ok now you win the all-in and have 6000 chips and if everything works well you double again for 12000 chips.
At this point I think a person should regain his senses and play like you know what your doing , not to say one doesn't, but I believe this is a must to gain a decent placement after the add-on rebuy period has ended . Yet is time to be satisfied with your standing even if rebuy is still open.
Ok now comes the Add-on , you double add-on for $2 and now have $6 invested and maybe 15K +/- chips . Maybe even $8 by the time the game settles into some sense of normalacy .
Even at this rate you may only be in decent chip stack position , but not by any means bad , or decent place in the remaining field of players . Almost certainly not the chip leader .
So now a $1 game cost you $6 , possibly more to be a contender .
Advantages seem to be :
Early size of your stack needed ( 1500 vs. 3000 ) you try to redouble through decent play of cards to get a decent amount of chips held after buy-in period .
Playing against players at your table with same size stacks ( They did the rebuy too , hopefully )
Some disadvantages:
The $1 buy in now may be a $6 or more cost to you.
Playing at a table where other players on the table may not have made the rebuy and slows down the ability to multiply your stack where other players graduation chance is higher because of the amount of chips held by other players at thier table .

I realize a person does not have to rebuy and am certain it will be a long slog rippled with luck to make it deep into the tourney at that rate , but possible . I think in all fairness there should be some levelness of chips people are required to hold in the beginning . ( maybe a required $2 buy in for 3000 chips and after that you can decide on what you would like to rebuy , if at all.) Just my thought on that . I do understand why a site would like a rebuy tourney as to $$ entered to try to sew up the payout costs . I just don't like to sit at a table I feel disadvantaged at .
That is not really what I would like to have discussed but do want insights to best practices for a well seated place after the buy in period . Maybe when or what chipstack size you need and when to start to protect what you gained ( some sort of comfort zone ). Maybe the tightness / looseness of play needed  in early stages to take advantage of capitalizing enough to be comfortable when things settle down.  Maybe what to observe in players after the rebuy period in case they havn't let go of loose playing yet or still gambling without realizing it in themselves yet.
Any related thoughts from guests on the show on this subject is sought as well as examples of gameplay would be nice . Maybe donkey play is not donkey play in certain aspects of the game . I am not referring to stupid play by any means .
I may have missed earlier discussions on this but would be nice to hear others speak to this as they may have a few thoughts not heard yet or would be great to hear again .

so last night im playing 1/2$nl i have about 45$ with j10s UTG+3 folded to me i raise to 12$ folds to sb he calls bb folds flop comes q92 rainbow.. i have three spades and open ended flush  he checks i push for the other 33 and change  he thinks and thinks ... then calls ... with q4 off suit ... did i play bad... i only pushed to take the pot down right there .. he was always betting his top or mid pair semi agressivly so i figured he missed...i consider my self a good player.. in the 2.5 hours before that i played .25/.50 with ten and went to 80$... why the heck did he call my raise in the first place ... thanks for any insight

I'm looking for a little reassurance here. Tell me I made a good fold here.

Here's the hand, it is just the second hand of the tourney:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.15 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

CO (t1480)
Hero (Button) (t1560)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1480)
UTG+2 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)

Hero's M: 52.00

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ah, As
2 folds, UTG+2 calls t20, 4 folds, Hero bets t100, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls t80

Flop: (t230) 10c, Jh, Kc (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets t100, UTG+2 raises to t200, Hero raises to t540, UTG+2 calls t340

Turn: (t1310) Kd (2 players)
UTG+2 bets t860 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t1310
Main pot: t1310 returned to UTG+2

Results:
UTG+2 didn't show
Outcome: UTG+2 won t1310


----------------------------------

I wonder if maybe I should have shoved after the turn, just to make sure he didn't suck out on me. My reasoning at the time was that in case he had AQ he would probably shove after my 3 bet and I could get away from the hand then. When he just called I put him on Kings and was pretty sure I would have his stack by the end of it. As soon as I saw the turn card I changed my mind.

In the end I guess it was the right call since just 14 hands later he was gone and I was still there. I just really hated folding that hand.

Do you approach short stacked Multi-table tournaments -say 100 big blinds - differently than MTTs with deeper starting stacks.  If so, how?  Also, how do blind structures matter?

Cheers

Question for Ace.  I only saw a few minutes of the training sessions by TJ, Tom and Kathy and it sounded really interesting.  I presume that there was a lot of standard info, but what were a few things you heard that were either new or a new "twist" to something you already knew?  Hope you had a great trip.  Quack, duckbutt

why is is it that no mater how tight you play in a tournament
a donkey comes along push all in pre flop amd wins

I heard you mention hand history reviewing on Tuesday's PTBTB's show.

So, I know this guy that is an average, break even kind of recreational player with a decent understanding of the game.  Or, at least he thinks he gets the fundamentals and some of the basic math.

If this guy was going to review his hand histories what would you suggest he look for?  I mean if he is only an OK player, how the heck is he going to know what to look for in those hand histories to analyze his own game.  Seems like the blind leading their self.  If you "see" what I mean.

Thanks for your reply and I'll be sure to forward your feedback onto this poor sap so perhaps he can improve his game, which I hear is not so "ducky".

Muchas Gracias and Quack (by the way, that's "quack" in spanish) - duckbutt

Submitted by All Ears in a general discussion thread, but I thought yawl could discuss this on the air.

POKER SKILLS THRILLS LUCK SUCK OUTS - WHO ARE YOU?
I just want to start this topic with something someone said at a RG table last night . I am sure I could sit here and type until tonight about this if I wanted but will try not to bore anyone.
This is close to the quote the person said ( mind you this was at a low fixed limit table but may be the case in other limits as weel ) " I play this game for the thrill of the chase to hit the flushes or straights " More than likely any other spoiler hand will do also for him. I see him play like a complete idiot and I will be dammed if he didn't suck out often . I felt at the time I wanted to wring his neck but after hearing what he said I understood but just seemed so much unlike what I have learned about how to play . I do not want to play that type of game and was geeting a sick feeling that somehow playing on that table was just a waste of time .
I have been told these are the types of players that you should want to play against with a good solid game and not fall back on old ways of playing just to fit in . I played most of the day in RG's yesterday with some nice pluses but by the time it was over was back to where I started and even down .
I know my game has improved considerably as of late and is why I felt this way . I have come to develope my game so that the hands I play for the most part I feel like I belonged in them and could see where someone got lucky to win . I just got the short end of the suck out losses . I do make notes more now .
I hate to say this but one hand where I was the BB and the betting was about capped when it got to me I called just because I knew there were players that just liked to pre flop raise for no apparent reason . Believe it or not I won that big hand , but was by luck only .It went like this , I had 10-3d and by the time the river was dealt I had 10 10 10 - 3-3-3 for the win .Go figure . I didn't do that again but needless to say I was guilty of some off base play .
I am trying to be the best I can and some spots I need to be able to fold because of the river card even if I had a great hand until then . Very hard thing to do but in long run costs less .
A rag is a very popular starting hand for many and when I have good pocket pairs I at time fold into bets in front of me . I have started to use more premium start cards as a rule ( Not always but fold alot of nice lookers ) . depend on the cost to see flop . I try not to chase as to me it seems like those types of play seldom come to fruition for me and are costly .
I like RG's and MTT's and do well in both but sometimes luck and the unability to fold can be my enemy . I am working on that . I have even learned to isolate a player like this somewhat and is a new skill I am learning .
I would appreciate any thoughts , advise on this subject , your experiences , things you can say that have improved your gameplay .
I had 2 back to back hands yesterday where I had AQ suited with a 4 card flush on the flop , hit my AQ for 2 pair only to be sucked out on the river by a straight . That was devastating to my morale as I know that the other player needed the river card to win and probably should not even been in the hand .
Give me some thought on starter cards , as a rule , maybe I need to rasie my choices in them ( AQ in not what I am reffering to as those were good cards )
I am not sure of the help I need but my basics are fairly honed but need to hear from others just as they need to hear from me .
This post is just me telling others some examples of the things that happen and anything added to this post I will see as a bonus .
Thanks for taking the time to read this . I did try to keep it short but may have failed that too.

most of us know that in a NLHE tournament, if your stack gets below 10 big blinds, you should be shoving a fairly wide range(depending on position) or folding.  But what is the basic short stack strategy in PLO? since at 10bb you can't get all in preflop unless its already raised to you, or there's a lot of limpers, the preflop all in loses nearly all fold equity, and since you're never a HUGE favorite preflop, it's definitely not worth it.

should i be looking to see a flop cheap and shove if i hit any piece of it? or raising loose to 3bb, and shoving on the flop?

also, if you could discuss shortstack strategy in a PL holdem/Omaha mixed tourney:  any merit in waiting for the other game to come at the next blind level to make your move?  should i tighten up a lot in holdem since if i have to get all in in omaha, i'll rarely be a big underdog?

thanks,
Mullettkid

(I'm not sure how to get Reefer/Feltstars histories into text so I'm posting a screen shot of the columnar hand history they provide within their software)

After thinking about this hand for a while and hearing about a similar situation on one of the Rounders Radio podcasts, I think I know how I could have given myself a better chance at a positive outcome. Have a look at the history and I'll tell you what would have done differently...



With a flop that gives possibilities of a flush draw or a straight draw, I have to consider that the bettor may be on a draw, especially when his bet is so weak looking. Rather than raising his flop bet, I should have called and seen the turn card because many players on a draw are much bolder when raising or calling raises with two cards to come rather than just one.
After seeing the turn wouldn't help a flush draw or straight draw, my big bet would have been much more scary and he MAY have folded.

Do you agree that calling instead of raising was the right thing to do at that point? Maybe you have different advice on the hand entirely, so please let me know what you think.

Go RockStars!
Deadheadz
OFC 61 Champ
Citizen of Olympic Hockey GOLD!